The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

User avatar
Greendogo
Site Staff
Site Staff
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:50 pm
Location: Land of Oz

Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:08 am

Page 10

wheybags wrote:Did some more work on 0-0
thumbnail

Still not quite happy, though.

EDIT: Also, pretty much done on 3-0
thumbnail


Bythemark wrote:Very nice update. Tiles and looks better.


StoneFrog wrote:Much better now! The slight variance you've added to the bricks in the first one really helps to make the wall less repetitive. Somehow, the contrast and colors in particular remind me of the oil painted backgrounds of old cartoons and adventure games. ;)


wheybags wrote:Added some filters. Is this better?
thumbnail


Super Llama wrote:
StoneFrog wrote:Much better now! The slight variance you've added to the bricks in the first one really helps to make the wall less repetitive. Somehow, the contrast and colors in particular remind me of the oil painted backgrounds of old cartoons and adventure games. ;)


For some reason, it reminds me a little of this: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FuLB_OJEb4s/0.jpg

Great work, though I actually like the second-to-the-last one better because it uses the original colors and is less "grey-pink".


wheybags wrote:Actually, after looking at both again, you're right. I don't know what I was thinking.

EDIT: Did 2-0. Pretty easy, as it was practically the same as 0-0, just no dirt, and more brown.
thumbnail


PatchyPegleg wrote:Again I am severely sorry for not being around more, but now I'm a house painter and my job is very tiresome... That, and my fiance just move in and she's nuts. Sooooo.... ya.

Let me recap on some stuff.

Bythemark-
It is very much possible to replace textures that are supposed to be in Privateer's Hold, however, anyone willing to attempt this that is a member of StoneFrog's DropBox would need to make their own separate texture replacers text file, solely for the purpose of showcasing their screen shots. If you are willing to make the extra effort then yes, anyone could take screen shots of their textures on any surface in DaggerXL, not just in Privateer's Hold.
Also, TextureFile.024 is yours. If you want more of the Desert Dungeons just let me know.

Wheybags-
TextureFile.007 & 008 are yours. And the textures look great. ;) I just wish I had more time to dedicate to this.
I like that one texture when it had less red in it, before the filters were added on. And the new one looks awesome, both definitely seem like they've been under the beating sun for some time. Good Job, keep it up and you'll have quite the good amount done on ya. I suggest you continue working on the Ruins, I think you'd make great dungeon exteriors. :)

StoneFrog-
You ugly.

If anyone want's me to edit the front page in any way just speak up (Such as a file is completed). And again, my apologies for the negligence.

EDIT:
Oh and Bythemark I forgot to reply to your mentioning of some textures being very similar. Here are some notes that I have taken on that matter.
022-4.tga is also 119-1.tga & 419-0.tga, and when desaturized it's 119-0.tga & 419-1.tga.
420-4.tga desaturized is 419-4.tga & 023-4.tga.
123-2.tga colored is 019-2.tga


EDIT2:
I remember now... HEY PEOPLE, MAKE SURE YOU GET A DROPBOX INVITE FROM STONEFROG. Okay, I feel better having said that. And if you don't wanna deal with organizing your crap in the DropBox. Put the textures in a folder with your name on it in DFTextures, and I will organize your new additions myself. Actually I prefer it that way but by all means if you want to do it go ahead. I'd even add your textures to the TXT.FILE for you. ;)

Okay, I'm done here. Goodluck everybody, and I'll try to check back more often.

EDIT3:
Hey I did a little update on the DropBox for preperations and whatnot.


wheybags wrote:Cool. Can I get a dropbox invite then? email is wheybags@gmail.com.


StoneFrog wrote:Done. :)

P.S. Is there any origin behind your username? Besides whey and the medium in which it is typically stored?


wheybags wrote:Yeah, whey is a distortion of wahey, like, the thing you would shout when you're excited. I can't really remember when bags came in though. So yeah, quite deceptively it has nothing to do with cheese. :D
User avatar
Greendogo
Site Staff
Site Staff
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:50 pm
Location: Land of Oz

Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:09 am

Page 11

TNoyce wrote:Those look very nice! Keep up the good work!


wheybags wrote:I think I've finished with Tex 7, here's a link to a gallery containing my retextures, anything you can spot that needs to change, please tell me, otherwise I will put them in with the others on stonefrog's dropbox.


Bythemark wrote:I like 3 and 4 a lot, 1 is good, but 2 looks odd.


PatchyPegleg wrote:3 & 4 are exceptionally great. 1 needs less red, and 2 looks like, hmm, to be as vulgar as possible 2 looks like 3 with dried semen on it.

Sorry to not have more in-depth input. :)


AlexanderSig wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:3 & 4 are exceptionally great. 1 needs less red, and 2 looks like, hmm, to be as vulgar as possible 2 looks like 3 with dried semen on it.

Sorry to not have more in-depth input. :)


Completely agree with every word (even the semen part), 1&2 are almost there dude :D

Edit; Actually, after look at the original file, I think no.3 could be a little darker, otherwise, awesome.


wheybags wrote:Okay, I can change 1, but 2 is a major bitch. ah well, I'll tinker a bit more and then see.


Super Llama wrote:Where are you getting those numbers, lol

EDIT: nevermind missed the link on this page

wow um, ew, 2 really does look like that O.o

3 and 4 are awesome though, 1 could use a bit more work on the dirt and maybe some more grunge (dirt, not bodily fluid) on the bricks.


Bythemark wrote:To get rid of the splotches, resize the original and set it to hue or color over it, then restore them if necessary.


PatchyPegleg wrote:Where are you getting those numbers? :lol:

I think if my memory serves me correctly that they are along the lines of 007-0/007-1/007-2 & 008-0/008-1/008-2...

I'm not sure though, I know that 007 & 008 are the same thing, and this is inductive with all ruin files. (107/8, 207/8, 407/8)

But besides the numbers mumbo jumbo the textures you have produced here are very much pro status. May I ask what resolution these are in?


wheybags wrote:ehh... 512x512. Is that too small? It's more than 4x the original res.
User avatar
Greendogo
Site Staff
Site Staff
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:50 pm
Location: Land of Oz

Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:11 am

Page 12

StoneFrog wrote:
wheybags wrote:ehh... 512x512. Is that too small? It's more than 4x the original res.

That's fine. These are the basic guidelines:

  • The individual wall textures on buildings (both interior and exterior) should not exceed 512px by either dimension, because they repeat and are used multiple times on a single mesh. Combined with how many identical buildings there are and the far draw distance, 1024x1024 textures aren't really as expendable for a game like Daggerfall as they are with Morrowind and Oblivion.
  • Floor and terrain textures could go up to 1024x1024 if the artist wants, since these are featured rather prominently and the player's eye is constantly drawn to them.


PatchyPegleg wrote:In translation 512x-1024x is cool.


StoneFrog wrote:Just don't bog down my super pro Intel Pentium 4.


Bythemark wrote:Don't bog down my Nvidia GeForce6 6100...

But ofc by the time DXL is done I suppose the good one will be ready.


Super Llama wrote:Don't bog down my IBM Thinkpad... wait that computer barely even runs vanilla Daggerfall.


PatchyPegleg wrote:Me and the llama are in the same boat. :(

Morrowind is a nightmare...

Dude I can't wait until I have some time to do a little texturing.


StoneFrog wrote:I have time. But I'm a legitimate workaholic and trying to relax for once. Don't know where I'd want to resume texturing either. Mountain cities? Woodland cities? What do you guys think should be done first?


Malentor wrote:
StoneFrog wrote:I have time. But I'm a legitimate workaholic and trying to relax for once. Don't know where I'd want to resume texturing either. Mountain cities? Woodland cities? What do you guys think should be done first?


I personally spend most of my time in mountain cities, so that would be where I personally would appreciate some new textures. ^^


StoneFrog wrote:Mountain cities it is. I'd say that, of all the architectural styles, I enjoy the mountain ones the most. Woodland buildings are a tad too earthy and repetitive in their color scheme, deserts have been taken care of, and the swamp buildings are just...gross. They're covered in foliage in the most absurd ways.


Bythemark wrote:Maybe we can completely revitalize some of the game's uglier textures. As long as it fits in the world, ofc, but we must realize the extent of the technical difficulties, time constraints, and lack of resources for making something look good. For the swamp things, if someone could tell me a texture pack, I'd be grateful.

In other news, only the first of 0.24 is done. :/
User avatar
Greendogo
Site Staff
Site Staff
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:50 pm
Location: Land of Oz

Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:12 am

Page 13

ancient_scars wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:(NOT ACTUAL SIZES, JUST SHOWING BOTH TEXTURES TO COMPARE THE TWO)
Image
(I was in a rush and somehow cut off a little bit of the right on the top picture when re-sizing for posting purposes :roll: )
Image


I know this may come a bit late in the process, but one thing to remember is that mortar (hydraulic mortar and cement, which appears dark) )was not in use between the Roman empire and the 19th century. Lime based mortar was used somewhat, but that would appear more white and reacts with water making it decay horribly over time. Imagine lime based mortar in a damp dungeon.

If you've visited a dungeon or two you'll also have noticed that there is no mortar between the stones unless it's been added in retrospect. ;)

I know Tamriel is not the real world, but the time period it's based on is medieval-ish. It might be a good idea to go easy on the mortar. At least make them less clean and sharp. Remember that Daggerfall dungeons are ancient.

I think this also fits better with the original textures. To my eyes there are not mortars in them.


Bythemark wrote:I think there are mortars, if you look at the original version. In any case lime mortars are definitely not pure white, and with grime, dirt, and decay from water (which will also make the dirt stick) it is entirely possible for it to be black. Perhaps not so clean cut, but still. Also, I don't think we should be really this deep into it. Unless we're bringing over textures from Star Wars I think we'll be OK :lol:

Image
Image


ancient_scars wrote:
Bythemark wrote:I think there are mortars, if you look at the original version. In any case lime mortars are definitely not pure white, and with grime, dirt, and decay from water (which will also make the dirt stick) it is entirely possible for it to be black. Perhaps not so clean cut, but still. Also, I don't think we should be really this deep into it. Unless we're bringing over textures from Star Wars I think we'll be OK :lol:

Image
Image



Actually, the grey mortar in the second picture you link to is cement mortar that has been used to replace/repair the original lime mortars. You can se the yellowish lime mortar mixing in with the grey cement. ;)

I agree with you about the grime and dirt, but I still feel the mortar in some of the new textures is way to perfect and modern looking. So, although I've revised my argument, I stand by my original point.

I also said "more white" and not "white". In retrospect I think "lighter" is a better word to convey what I mean.


ancient_scars wrote:Here's a mock-up without mortars to show what I mean. I just think it looks more natural without the mortar, or at least without the mortar being so visible/wide.
020-0-3_test01.jpg


PatchyPegleg wrote:You are very right bro. I appreciate realism more than I do being faithful to Bethesda's lazy textures. My problem is that I tend to make things too cartoony. I'm about to redo all my textures here shortly. I'm just at a lack on time. When I start up here soon I'd appreciate it if you 'guided' me through the remakes, you seem like you got a head on your shoulders.


Super Llama wrote:For once, I actually don't agree. We're trying to preserve the overall feel of a texture. We can change small details, but if we were to scale down the old texture to the size of the new one, they should look almost identical. This means using the same hues (shadowing is still a good idea), the same concept, and making the grunge/detailing not too much more than the original. In fact, if you think they're too different, you might do a Gaussian blur on the original and add it back on top at 20% opacity.

I might give this texture a try just to show what I mean. The only reason I haven't done any textures is because it looked like everyone had it covered, but now I might try redoing certain textures if I don't like the way you guys did it. Don't take it as an insult-- your textures are great, they're just a little too different for my liking. This way, we can have two versions to choose from. Think I should try?


P.S.

PatchyPegleg wrote:Me and the llama are in the same boat. :(

My main computer is actually decent-- it can play Oblivion on medium settings, and Morrowind+MGE (with some framerate problems). My IBM Thinkpad is the ancient win95 laptop I take camping :P


Lazaroth wrote:It must be cohesive with all the other textures that's also done. E.g. the NPCs which are more towards cartoony than realistic.
I am all for realism, but a golden middle I think is the way to go. The old is too cartoony for my taste and completely photorealistic would probably be a tad weird.

Looking forward on all of your takes on the textures, so we can see what direction it's going.


ancient_scars wrote:
Lazaroth wrote:It must be cohesive with all the other textures that's also done. E.g. the NPCs which are more towards cartoony than realistic.
I am all for realism, but a golden middle I think is the way to go. The old is too cartoony for my taste and completely photorealistic would probably be a tad weird.

Looking forward on all of your takes on the textures, so we can see what direction it's going.


The work already done on exterior walls are very good. Some can be seen on the first page of The DaggerXL Texture Project (General Discussion)

They are just higher res versions of the originals. ;)

P.S Can someone tell me how to make pretty links? I mean that the link is hidden behind a title, sort of ish.

*edit*
Fixed the link.


StoneFrog wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:You are very right bro. I appreciate realism more than I do being faithful to Bethesda's lazy textures. My problem is that I tend to make things too cartoony. I'm about to redo all my textures here shortly. I'm just at a lack on time. When I start up here soon I'd appreciate it if you 'guided' me through the remakes, you seem like you got a head on your shoulders.

The first and foremost goal of this project was to keep them semblant of Bethesda's textures. Yes, they've cut corners in many places, but you're certainly free to add more variety if you feel compelled to. Daggerfall, atmospherically, is darker than the other Elder Scrolls games, but I do prefer the lighted textures you've been making. I wouldn't mind a bit more photorealism from the dungeons though, because then I'd feel a lot more confident working on my textures. Back when we were making them more detailed (look at the old Medium-Res versions), I was finishing them really quickly. I kind of thought everyone wanted them cartoony and I was having lots of trouble coping.


klasodeth wrote:
ancient_scars wrote:...Can someone tell me how to make pretty links? I mean that the link is hidden behind a title, sort of ish.


Below is an example of a "pretty" link. The example below shows how the code should look:

Code: Select all

[url=http://daggerxl.50.forumer.com/]DaggerXL Forum[/url]


And here is the result of that code:
DaggerXL Forum



Here's another example. First the code:

Code: Select all

[url=http://www.elderscrolls.com/home/home.php]The Elder Scrolls website[/url]


And now the result of that code:
The Elder Scrolls website

Just change the URL and the title to suit your needs, and it should work.
User avatar
Greendogo
Site Staff
Site Staff
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:50 pm
Location: Land of Oz

Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:14 am

Page 14

ancient_scars wrote:
klasodeth wrote:Below is an example of a "pretty" link. The example below shows how the code should look:

Code: Select all

[url=http://daggerxl.50.forumer.com/]DaggerXL Forum[/url]



Brilliant! Thanks. :)

*edit*
Shortened text


Nextmastermind wrote:How'd you get those textures into the game? :o


Bythemark wrote:see lucius's sticky in the mods forum.


PatchyPegleg wrote:What's difficult about this is we are aiming for faithfulness to the original (arcade style), but more vivid and realistic (photo-realism). It's hard to get a good balance in there.

And the only suggestion we're able to give is, "Do what you think is best."

So I'd say we should just stay the course, do your thang and work with people's feedback. Maybe re-do it 3 or 4 times... But once it's perfect, you can take pride in it and move on.


Lazaroth wrote:I'm going to narrow down what I would want to see in all textures. This may or may not be what you all other folks want to see, but maybe it can start a discussion or spark an idea which lands somewhere.

Back when I played old games such as Daggerfall a large amount (when they were released), I always in some sense felt pity for the texture-designers and their limitations in terms of hight, width and color palette. I thought that if they have had the possibility they would have made it look photorealistic. I always imagined the stones in the dungeons being photorealistic rocks and imagined the non-seethrough water being very murry. The important word in the last sentience is imagined. As with all old games, they had to rely on the imagination of the player. This is something that unfortunately in much is lost today, as now we are presented with "this is how it is" (and annoying popups with help etc, but that's another discussion).

With regard to this underlying truth (as I see it), I must say that I today not would have wanted photorealistic textures, as then a lot of that imagination aspect would be lost. Neither do I want a cartoony stylization because that is not how I perceived the original texture. Though, since the original textures are the resolution they are, obviously it's hard to exactly guess what the texture really should have looked like if it was done larger.

My thought is that it probably would have looked the same but with more details applied to it. That you can really see that it's dirt between the rocks and not some blury mess. I'm going to go into more why I don't like the following texture and I mean no disrespect to the artist.

Image

The above I would describe as the artist taking a direction which stylizes it towards the cartoony. I miss the details. I can't see the "concrete" between the bricks. I can't see the imperfections and cracks in the bricks. It's all smudged out. There are however hints of the crispness I would have wanted. At the bottom and on the left side of the top right brick, I see the small cracks / imperfections of the brick (although with smudged parts in between). If you give that kind of detail to the entire texture (also in the bricks, not just the sides), then you're golden IMO. I like the color palette for this texture, I just don't like the bluriness / lack of detail.


jman0war wrote:
Lazaroth wrote:Back when I played old games such as Daggerfall a large amount (when they were released), I always in some sense felt pity for the texture-designers and their limitations in terms of hight, width and color palette. I thought that if they have had the possibility they would have made it look photorealistic. I always imagined the stones in the dungeons being photorealistic rocks and imagined the non-seethrough water being very murry.

I couldn't disagree more. If the designers wanted photorealism they could have used pictures.
The art of DF is highly stylized in form and look like hand-drawn illustrations; it's like one big canvas of Mark Jone's art.
Lazaroth wrote:The above I would describe as the artist taking a direction which stylizes it towards the cartoony.

I think most people would agree that "Cartoony" certainly is an unwanted stylization, but not all stylization is cartoony.
And in this context I suppose that is not a descriptor i would apply for the image you've linked.
Lazaroth wrote:I miss the details. I can't see the "concrete" between the bricks. I can't see the imperfections and cracks in the bricks. It's all smudged out. There are however hints of the crispness I would have wanted. At the bottom and on the left side of the top right brick, I see the small cracks / imperfections of the brick (although with smudged parts in between). If you give that kind of detail to the entire texture (also in the bricks, not just the sides), then you're golden IMO. I like the color palette for this texture, I just don't like the bluriness / lack of detail.

I agree that this texture is a mix-match of areas that show crisp detail vs areas that are blurry; and that is probably what the artist may try to improve upon.

But i agree with an earlier poster that suggested mortar would not have been in use during medieval times and i share their opinion that it shouldn't exist in this texture.
I think the mortar is too perfect and is making the bricks appear to be too perfectly cut-stone.


Lazaroth wrote:I wanted to get some more answers before I wrote again, but I just had to comment on the things jman0war wrote, since I found it amusing.

jman0war wrote:I couldn't disagree more. If the designers wanted photorealism they could have used pictures.♦

Do you realize that you just said that you disagree to how I perceived the game 14 years ago... :D In my defence, I was 12 for god sake... :)
You also missed the point (written in the next part), which was that I don't want complete photorealism anymore since nowadays I see it more or less as you do.

jman0war wrote:but not all stylization is cartoony

Duh? :D

jman0war wrote:And in this context I suppose that is not a descriptor i would apply for the image you've linked.

Still missing the point.

jman0war wrote:and that is probably what the artist may try to improve upon

The entire post was a response to what was said on page 13, that most of the textures are going to be redone but there were some questioning as to how this should be done and I gave my view on this question with some backstory. The post ended in how I think the textures should be done and to that part you agreed.


StoneFrog wrote:Now, one thing you have to realize is that textures aren't always designed at the native resolution at which they are to be used. In some cases, developers work them at double size only to be told they have to scale them down for space constraints. There's lots of little oddities with the game's textures - specks of orange on rocks, stains, and strange lattice patterns that probably had greater semblance to something when the textures were being made, but then became blurred and incoherent when the textures were scaled down. Assuming that the Daggerfall artists were as rushed as everybody else on the project, then they took little to no time to make these details distinct.

Which brings me to my next point. I don't think they were ever trying to make the game's textures photorealistic or grungy per se. When textures are subject to lower resolutions and limited palettes, what do artists sacrifice? Not necessarily "visual noise" - scratch marks, dirt, all that photorealistic overlay stuff. It is not these pseudo-photorealistic details that were lost or even considered to begin with, but actual features of the texture are. How do you make a fine crack more noticeable at low resolutions? Chances are you'd deepen it and make the color of the crack darker. Artists have to maximize the amount of details they can get out of their limited work area.

Look at old games like Monkey Island 2, where the characters' proportions and clothing are designed to be slightly stockier and flowing, in order to make them more distinct. Maybe the runes on the walls in the Mages' Guild were supposed to be arranged in a circle or something, but that wouldn't look too great at a low res so they went with larger symbols and a simpler, horizontal orientation. Of course, we'll never truly know what and what wasn't in the artists' heads at the time (Mark Jones stopped replying to my emails!), so it's a lot of guesswork.

What I'm saying is that I don't think, given the chance, Bethesda's artists would have made the textures grungier. Maybe they would have had a lot more visual interest and a lot more features, such as hinges and intricate wood trim patterns, but I doubt that given a higher resolution to work with they would've merely sacrificed all their additional pixels for noise.


Bythemark wrote:Pictures don't tile. And the games that try to be the most realistic don't use pictures. It wouldn't have helped at all, imo.

As for cartooniness, I think that's silly. It's from 1996. You can't get realism in a game with as much scope as DF on 1996 computers, and it was even high-end back then. It's a side effect or a conscious decision to give up realism in certain textures because of technology constraints. What the image is of also takes up space, and limited palettes make for smaller file sizes and for cartooniness.

We could also just see if we can track down any original texturemakermen.

Monkey Island was made to be silly. Of course it's not going to look realistic. SoMI and DF are completely different games.


ancient_scars wrote:* Professional artists never do the art for a game at the game-native resolution. Usually they do the textures in at least 2048x2048 or 4096x4096 pixels when designing. It's a lot easier to add detail and remove blemishes in large images, and they can always be downscaled to the appropriate size. Fable for PC benefited from this as the texture resolution was increased compared to the X-box version. The devs didn't have to do anything other than chucking in the original textures. I believe the resolution was four times that of the X-box version.

* Look at Morrowind and Oblivion. They are nowhere near realistic in appearance. The developers could have used photo-realistic textures, but they chose not to. The reason for this is that photo-realistic textures rarely look good in games simply because the environment is not realistic enough. The more "real" looking the textures are, the more they stand out in a polygon world.

* I do not agree that Daggerfall is cartoonish. It's painterly. The Monkey Island games have a cartoon feel. Again, look at Morrowind and Oblivion. Stone and grass looks like stone and grass, but they look nowhere near realistic. This is a design decision and not a limitation.

*edit*
fixed a glaring contradiction
User avatar
Greendogo
Site Staff
Site Staff
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:50 pm
Location: Land of Oz

Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:15 am

Page 15

StoneFrog wrote:
ancient_scars wrote:* I do not agree that Daggerfall is cartoonish. It's painterly.

I agree with you that Daggerfall isn't an outright cartoonish game, but I'm not sure just how literal the term "painterly" is - Mark Jones, the lead artist on Daggerfall and Battlespire, actually does paint his textures by hand (as opposed to resorting to overlay rape like Bethesda did with Oblivion). :)


wheybags wrote:Changed 0-0, got rid of the red, and made it more yellow. Haven't a clue what to do with the "dried jizz'' one, though.
Image


Lazaroth wrote:One general comment on the texture. It's a bit flat. The darker areas could be darker and the lighter be even ligher.

Quick mockup (the colors are wrong), just my opinion, you can all agree or disagree... :)

Image

ancient_scars wrote:I agree with you on this one. Also there's way to much red in the texture. it's even more evident in your mockup. It practically looks like blood spatter.


PatchyPegleg wrote:Image
The bricks were meant to be a dried sand clay with mortar since it is a desert crypt brick. The 'smudgy center' is smoothed out clay, you are supposed to be able to see tool marks where the clay is more raised in some areas than others. And the colors are to represent the damp oily colors from aging clay. And the edges are cracked because the bricks are dried out. But apparently if I have to explain this then it just wasn't done well enough.

I'm probably going to re-do everything when I start back up again.


QuakerTroy wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:The 'smudgy center' is smoothed out clay, you are supposed to be able to see tool marks where the clay is more raised in some areas than others. And the colors are to represent the damp oily colors from aging clay. And the edges are cracked because the bricks are dried out. But apparently if I have to explain this then it just wasn't done well enough.

Actually, I recognized all of this and was kind of shocked to see Lazaroth dog on it so much. Don't think you failed in this texture, because it's really well done. I like it. :D


VinWij wrote:Patchy, I also think it's very well done. It has a high degree of realism to it. Perhaps my only comment would be that it looks a bit noisy, as if there is some light-noise on it. Hard to describe, actually, but it might be that you upped the brightness at some point and that is what's causing the effect.

None the less, I'd add it in my game for sure :).


Lazaroth wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:And the colors are to represent the damp oily colors from aging clay. And the edges are cracked because the bricks are dried out. But apparently if I have to explain this then it just wasn't done well enough.


I think your intentions were right on the money, but the execution I perceived more as something from the Oblivion painting quest. As I also said, this is my opinion and I alone am not in majority nor necessarily right.

Also, the critique I gave was to the overall design and not only to the specific texture I chose when explaining. I chose that one because it was the last one created, just to clarify for QuakerTroy. I thought I'd speak up now rather than later, since you said that you'd be doing the textures again anyway.

The new version which you have in your last post is better in the sense that even I now can see what you are trying to do. Although as VinWij pointed out, it's noisy and has some color cast.

Last words for now; I think it's a good job you're doing (if that wasn't clear), I just have some opinions/pointers (which I sometimes have too many of)... ;)


wheybags wrote:
Lazaroth wrote:One general comment on the texture. It's a bit flat. The darker areas could be darker and the lighter be even ligher.

Quick mockup (the colors are wrong), just my opinion, you can all agree or disagree... :)

Image


I've been trying to do that, but I can't get the mortar darker without messing with the colours.


Bythemark wrote:Have you tried duping the layer, desaturating it, then changing brightness/contrast, and then setting the old layer on color or hue mode on top of it? It works flawlessly with shades of white-gray-black and changes between those three.

Or, just get another texture from the same pack to do the job of restoring color if it's just too far gone (do this for the icky one, you know) and the details will remain perfectly, at most you will have to overlay hand made correct colors, or even just burning and dodging.
User avatar
Greendogo
Site Staff
Site Staff
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:50 pm
Location: Land of Oz

Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:18 am

Page 16

klasodeth wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:I'm probably going to re-do everything when I start back up again.

No. Do not do this. You're likely to get stuck in a rut if you do. Just move on to other textures. As your skills improve, you can always revisit your previous textures later. But if you try to seek perfection too early, you run the risk of getting frustrated by constantly revising the same few textures over and over again.


jet800 wrote:
klasodeth wrote:No. Do not do this. You're likely to get stuck in a rut if you do. Just move on to other textures. As your skills improve, you can always revisit your previous textures later. But if you try to seek perfection too early, you run the risk of getting frustrated by constantly revising the same few textures over and over again.

+1


Bythemark wrote:
jet800 wrote:
klasodeth wrote:No. Do not do this. You're likely to get stuck in a rut if you do. Just move on to other textures. As your skills improve, you can always revisit your previous textures later. But if you try to seek perfection too early, you run the risk of getting frustrated by constantly revising the same few textures over and over again.

+1


StoneFrog wrote:
Bythemark wrote:
jet800 wrote:klasodeth snip...
+1

Take it from me. I haven't completed a texture in months. :D


Tsetra wrote:I think if you're wanting to go for the realistic look, then by all means do it. If you feel like coming back to the painterly look, people will still be working on it. I've never been very productive when making a chore out of things myself, so if you don't like adhering to a certain look - don't. Do whatever keeps yourself entertained.


PatchyPegleg wrote:You all are just so lovely.

Lazaroth in no way shape or form am I offended by your feedback. I only appreciate what you have to say, as the critique's words have value that the artist cannot provide. And everyone else thank you for sticking up for my texture I also appreciate it.

Klasodeth I'm gonna take your advice and move on, next week I'll post something new. :)


StoneFrog wrote:Starting to wonder if I should work at 8x magnification and then scale it down, or keep to the 4x magnification. I really, really think individual building textures being 512x1024 would be absurd considering how frequently they occur, but I have this gut feeling that someday everybody's hardware will be powerful enough to seek such detail. Then a new texture project will come along and obsolete our work. I don't know, ideas?


Tsetra wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:Klasodeth I'm gonna take your advice and move on, next week I'll post something new. :)


Wise choice, IMO. I thought the bricks looked fantastic, personally. Should look epic in game.


QuakerTroy wrote:
StoneFrog wrote:Starting to wonder if I should work at 8x magnification and then scale it down, or keep to the 4x magnification. I really, really think individual building textures being 512x1024 would be absurd considering how frequently they occur, but I have this gut feeling that someday everybody's hardware will be powerful enough to seek such detail. Then a new texture project will come along and obsolete our work. I don't know, ideas?


I'm already running mods that make all of Morrowind's textures 1650x1080 with no slowdowns.


Gez wrote:
QuakerTroy wrote:I'm already running mods that make all of Morrowind's textures 1650x1080 with no slowdowns.

That's a really weird texture resolution. Aren't you confusing with screen resolution? Usually textures are powers of two (e.g., 1024x1024). Some hardware actually can't manage NPO2 textures at all!
User avatar
Greendogo
Site Staff
Site Staff
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:50 pm
Location: Land of Oz

Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:20 am

Page 17

QuakerTroy wrote:
Gez wrote:
QuakerTroy wrote:I'm already running mods that make all of Morrowind's textures 1650x1080 with no slowdowns.

That's a really weird texture resolution. Aren't you confusing with screen resolution? Usually textures are powers of two (e.g., 1024x1024). Some hardware actually can't manage NPO2 textures at all!

Derp, you're right. It's 1024x1024. My screen res is 1680x1050 (also a mistake), which you have to mod to get.


PatchyPegleg wrote:Whether or not our work is obsolete some day, we are pioneers of modding. Just as Bethesda were pioneers before us.


Super Llama wrote:How do you run in 1680x1050? Just curious-- I have my own way, and I too run (several) 1024x1024 texture packs. It lags pretty badly (I get about 12 fps outside) but I really don't mind, since it makes Morrowind look so amazing. I actually blame the view distance more than the textures, although I do have an nVidia so the textures are probably the true source of lag. Anyhow, my way of running in 1680x1050 is to configure MGE to run in windowed mode at that resolution, then I use a program I wrote (called WindowMod) to search for the Morrowind window by title and use the windows API to remove borders and fill the screen. Works great, though it's kind of annoying to have to repeat the process every single time Morrowind crashes, which is very often with the ton of mods I have...


QuakerTroy wrote:MGE should allow you to run at that resolution. I actually can't run MGE because it causes a complete black screen ingame, but I can still use it to mod the morrowind.ini file to allow that resolution. I take it to mean the resolution is entirely dependent on the morrowind.ini file, I just can't find the damn line that lets you change it. Easiest just to have MGE configure it for you.


Gez wrote:That'd be because the resolution is not in the ini, but in the registry... Same deal for Oblivion.


QuakerTroy wrote:
Gez wrote:That'd be because the resolution is not in the ini, but in the registry... Same deal for Oblivion.

Ah, well there you have it.


PatchyPegleg wrote:You guys are severely off topic yo. Keep dungeons in your mind while in this corner of the Texture Project. ;)

Any who,

This is a desert crypt ceiling prototype. I don't really like it, but this is what I've been playing with. I photoshop raped this texture, there was no skill involved. I'm thinking about trying to make this one from scratch like how I did with the brick texture.
SCREEN SHOT
Image

BTW, my computer was always too compaq to run MGE without motherboard combustion occurring. So you all suck for being able to use it. Except QuakerTroy.

EDIT: Also with that photoshop pic, it doesn't want to pop up seamless, and I haven't added any dividers because I'm not sure what the original was aiming for. Bethesda went and messed it all up and I was too lazy to decipher it, so later when I get more into this ceiling I'll post some before and after pictures so you guys can see what I'm talking about.


QuakerTroy wrote:It's not bad. It's higher res than the original, so that makes it look nicer. I suppose it doesn't repeat as well as one might hope, but it's not glaring enough to be noticable if you're immersed in the gameplay, so I, personally, would definitely implement it as-is. If you think you could do better, though, go for it.


PatchyPegleg wrote:It's just not faithful enough for me,

You can ask Arctus, textures that have just been 'revised' is where it's at. :)

This is nice but it needs love.


StoneFrog wrote:Don't get too discouraged by filter raping. From what I've seen, even Bethesda's textures are heavily composed of overlays and very little painting.
User avatar
Greendogo
Site Staff
Site Staff
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:50 pm
Location: Land of Oz

Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:24 am

Page 18

PatchyPegleg wrote:Sorry for such the long pause in progress, I was hoping to start getting the Dungeon Textures moving again. I've noticed that no one has updated the DropBox yet so in essence this means that no real progress has been made since my most recent ceiling (I decided to leave it for now). I'll be updating the DropBox after this post.

While Lucius was away I thought to myself that I had to finish retexturing all of Privateer's Hold within a year at least. I think I joined in Jan. so I realize I'm running out of time. So now I'm gonna give this project time and finish what hasn't been done, then revise everything to match each other and it's appropriate file. (Swamp Dungeon texture will be 'swampy'; Desert Crypt will look like whatever it should)
I guess it's just important to me that all my textures look good together is what I'm trying to say, I don't want them to look out of place chillin' in one room.

So, once Lucius popped in I decided maybe I should get started. :)

SCREEN SHOTS
Image
Before
Image
After
_____
Image
Before
Image
After

TEXTURE
Image


ancient_scars wrote:I like the bump map effect on the wall texture. Overall it's a very good job, though the floor and ceiling looks a bit lacking in detail in comparison. It makes it painfully obvious how few faces the meshes consist of. Seeing it makes me dream of a fully normal mapped Daggerfall. :o)


Malentor wrote:It still has a sort of blurry look that hurts my eyes. :?


PatchyPegleg wrote:
It makes it painfully obvious how few faces the meshes consist of.

Yup. :lol: Nothing we can do here for a while.
...though the floor and ceiling looks a bit lacking in detail in comparison.

That's why I was saying I was gonna go back and revise everything once things have been retextured at least once. I thought the floor was okay in this screen shot, I know I rushed the ceiling as a prototype then just called it good. Meh, it don't matter, I will probably re-do them anyways. I'm glad you like the wall, I think I'm getting better, I made that in like over an hour. :)

That sort of blurry look is probably just a wee bit too much noise. I thought it was an appropriate amount, but I'll remain cautious when applying it.

EDIT:
AlexanderSig - I haven't heard from you since, May 30th, I'm just curious what's going on & how is the DesertMines coming along.
Bythemark - Just asking how things are going, if you've played with the DesertSewers at all.
Wheybags - I noticed you were about done with the DesertRuins a while back, just wanted to know if you needed any help with the Dropbox or anything, or just how you're doing.


AlexanderSig wrote:Oh yeah, sorry about that, I kinda gave up on it because I felt I couldn't reach the same level of quality that others have done :(

You can probably cross the "WIP" off :(


wheybags wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:
Wheybags - I noticed you were about done with the DesertRuins a while back, just wanted to know if you needed any help with the Dropbox or anything, or just how you're doing.

I just sort of forgot about it, then when I checked back in, Lucius was gone, so I sorta lost hope. I will try and get those done some time soon though (might be hard, seeing as I just started first year computer science in univer-city, though).


PatchyPegleg wrote:That's fine, get around to it whenever. That's how I do it.


Arctus wrote:
wheybags wrote: (might be hard, seeing as I just started first year computer science in univer-city, though).


Nice man. First years are always kind of hard just getting used to it, good luck.


wheybags wrote:Thanks, I've been really looking forward to it.
School did NOT agree with me.


Arctus wrote:Some people do not that great in high school then rather well in college (aka me). What school did you get into? Oddly enough, me and Greendogo actually go to the same college.
User avatar
Greendogo
Site Staff
Site Staff
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:50 pm
Location: Land of Oz

Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:26 am

Page 19

luciusDXL wrote:As for the low mesh density - DaggerXL could support displacement maps in the future, which would allow the geometry to be upresed based on the textures but still keep the same feel.


PatchyPegleg wrote:I have no problems with that, whatsoever.


wheybags wrote:Updated the dropbox with my 007 and 008 textures, even though only half are finished. I could figure out the texturereplacers.txt, but what's with the optional one? It seems the same. I didn't know what to do with it, so I left it alone.


Bythemark wrote:I've forgotten where I was :). I've nearly finished, I believe, with most of my first folder. I gave up hope and stopped working after the updates stopped. I'll just work on whatever folder I claimed after that.


wheybags wrote:Image Image

Updated these two in the dropbox, these are my final version. I've had enough of fiddling with these two annoying textures. I'm gonna claim a new texture soon.


VinWij wrote:The honey covered wall looks somewhat odd... ^_^

I don't think splashes of sand stick together that way, I believe. Still, I like the base wall texture.


Rhymer wrote:Looks nice, but a bit unnatural. Maybe something like this?
Image Image


Arctus wrote:Damn Rhymer are those textures or actual pictures? And it's nice to see you around again, thought you disappeared.


Rhymer wrote:Thank you! I've not returned because I haven't actually left the project - I'm constantly here, reading the forum, waiting for news. Unfortunately, a lot of events in my life prevent me from active participating in recreating the wonderful world of Daggerfall currently.

As for the textures - these are tiled textured based on the photo of an old stone fence I've found on CG Textures.


AlexanderSig wrote:Sweet, Rhymer's back (to posting) :)

Nice texture btw :)

Return to “Texture Project”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests