Improved Random Generation

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Draulius
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Improved Random Generation

Postby Draulius » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:50 am

Daggerfall is a great game. Not a perfect game though, but with the DaggerXL project, its issues now have the possibility to be fixed. The issue I have with Daggerfall is how boring and uninteresting some of the randomly generated dungeons, towns, and landscapes could be sometimes.

Will this project ever improve upon how those are generated to spice them up? Also, another question, will DaggerXL expand the view distance of your character?

Thanks in advance.
Aliotroph?
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Re: Improved Random Generation

Postby Aliotroph? » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:29 pm

Dungeons and towns aren't randomly generated. They were procedurally generated - once. They are identical for everybody's games every time.

There could easily be a feature or a mod that improves them though. I suspect editing tools will appear to let you build your own too.

DaggerXL is already taking a stab at nicer landscapes. Have a look at the screens (especially in the thread about Lucius' recent progress) or play the current release to see the results so far. Even so, the landscape is generated based on the data in the game files. It doesn't change from one game to the next (well, sometimes it changes even while you're playing, but that's because Daggerfall is glitchy). The terrain may be less static in DaggerXL depending on how Lucius designed the terrain generator.
Draulius
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Re: Improved Random Generation

Postby Draulius » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:58 pm

So if I walked miles from any random city, the landscape would be static and from data files? Interesting, did not know that, figured it for randomly generated by each player!
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Freak2121
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Re: Improved Random Generation

Postby Freak2121 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:11 pm

Draulius wrote:So if I walked miles from any random city, the landscape would be static and from data files? Interesting, did not know that, figured it for randomly generated by each player!
Many of the things were pre-generated at Bethesda's offices and the data packaged into the game. I believe only foliage and terrain is generated as you play and even then they rely on some data (height-maps, climate-maps, etc) I may be wrong, though. Best ask Lucius.
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jet800
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Re: Improved Random Generation

Postby jet800 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:58 pm

Draulius, I think, your threads(this one and this) should be merged and moved to Daggerfall-specific forum :)
Aliotroph?
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Re: Improved Random Generation

Postby Aliotroph? » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:29 pm

The terrain is generated as the game loads it, but it's done it from the same data every time and using the same algorithm. It has the same features every time. This is why all players can find that mountain we had so much fun with a few months ago.

You can even use editing tools to modify the elevation and climates and then play the results in the game. One of the threads around here has some of that in it.

The foliage seems a little more strange. It was probably meant to generate the same way every time, but that part of the engine seems to have issues with maintaining its state. It's hilarious to see the plants change to something else when changing travel modes.

DaggerXL uses exactly the same data, but doesn't try to copy the terrain-generation algorithm. I don't know if all the little bumps are identical every time in DaggerXL because I never tested. Lucius could tell us. The broad strokes are certainly the same. Gothway Garden is a nice place to go and see the results.

One thing Daggerfall does with the foliage is vary its density based both on the climate and the elevation of the terrain. I had to test carefully to make sense of this. This fact doesn't appear to be well known. It also varies the bumpiness of the terrain based on the height and climate.

An obvious way to see this is to play with the ocean and swamp climates. They use the same textures and plants, but if you make a mountain with an ocean climate it will be very jagged whereas a swamp mountain will be less jagged.

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