The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

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The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:35 am

This thread will be reassigned to PatchyPegleg as soon as he creates his account over here. I am, however, going to start migrating this thread from the old forums now. Patchy, pm me when you create your account if I don't see you first. I'll change the owner of this post and thread over to you so you can edit this post.

PatchyPegleg wrote:[DXLTexPack]
364MB; Contains ReadMe; Optional Texture Replacers Text Document File for Medium Res Terrain
DaggerXL Modding Community Texture Packet

Dungeons
Re-Textures & Discussion
This thread will be covering all that has to do with the following Texture Files in DXLTexPack.
(if it's blank it's unclaimed ;) )

Desert Climate & Misc
-Desert Ruins
[TEXTURE.007] - COMPLETE (wheybags)
[TEXTURE.008] - COMPLETE (wheybags)
-Desert Crypt
[TEXTURE.019] - COMPLETE (PatchyPegleg)
[TEXTURE.020] - COMPLETE (PatchyPegleg)
-Desert Dungeons
[TEXTURE.022] - Work exists but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.023] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.024]
[TEXTURE.025]
-Desert Mines
[TEXTURE.045]
-Desert Natural Caves
[TEXTURE.047]
-Dungeon Entrances
[TEXTURE.056]
-Desert Sewer
[TEXTURE.068]
-Coffins Organ
[TEXTURE.092]
-Torture Stuff
[TEXTURE.093]
-Misc. Textures
[TEXTURE.094]
-Dungeon Exits.
[TEXTURE.095]

Mountain Climate & Misc
-Mountain Ruins
[TEXTURE.107]
[TEXTURE.108]
-Mountain Crypt
[TEXTURE.119] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.120]
-Arches and Doorways
[TEXTURE.121]
-Mountain Dungeons
[TEXTURE.122] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.123]
[TEXTURE.124]
[TEXTURE.125]
-Mountain Marble Floors
[TEXTURE.141] - COMPLETE (PatchyPegleg)
-Mountain Mines
[TEXTURE.145]
-Mountains Natural Caves
[TEXTURE.147] - AlexanderSig has done some work here.
-Mountain Sewers
[TEXTURE.168]

Woodland Climate & Misc
-Woodland Ruins
[TEXTURE.307]
[TEXTURE.308]
-Woodland Crypt
[TEXTURE.319]
[TEXTURE.320]
-Arches and Doorways VI
[TEXTURE.321]
-Woodland Dungeons
[TEXTURE.322] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.323]
[TEXTURE.324]
[TEXTURE.325]
-Dungeon Entrances(ruin)
[TEXTURE.331]
-Woodland Mines
[TEXTURE.345]
-Woodland Natural Caves
[TEXTURE.347]
-Woodland Sewers
[TEXTURE.368]

Swamp Climate
-Swamp Ruins
[TEXTURE.407]
[TEXTURE.408]
-Swamp Crypt
[TEXTURE.419] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.420]
-Swamp Dungeons
[TEXTURE.422]
[TEXTURE.423]
[TEXTURE.424] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.425]
-Swamp Mines
[TEXTURE.445]
-Swamp Natural Caves
[TEXTURE.447]
-Swamp Sewers
[TEXTURE.468]

Updated April 3rd, 2011 - Claims removal, name restored, content update and fixed ReadMe for real. :oops:
Updated November 8th, 2010 - Renamed download "DFTexture" randomly, ReadMe fixed.
Updated October 25th, 2010 - Claims & progress update, DXLTexPack up for Download!
Updated September 26th, 2010 - Progress update.
Updated July 11th, 2010 - Claims & progress update.
Updated July 3rd, 2010 - Claims & progress update.
Updated June 1st, 2010 - Re-formatted layout, new texture files added and progress updated.

As time goes on more Texture Files will be added, as well as progress and claims.
*For instance, none of the main quest related locations have been included in the list yet.*

Anyone can download InterKarma's Daggerfall Explorer/Imaging through the following link http://www.dfworkshop.net/?page_id=100, check out which Texture Files they would like to work on or even just to talk about. Feel free to do as you please. :) Now Daggerfall Imaging 2 is available, be sure to browse around InterKarma's website.

If you are interested in aiding the Texture Project, just PM StoneFrog about a DropBox invite. People that can help you get started includes but is not limited to Lucius & the Site Staff, StoneFrog, myself, Rhymer, Ghost Line, DigitalMonk, and Levethian. Most of these people would be more than willing to help you get started with re-texturing Daggerfall.
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Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:38 am

Page 1

PatchyPegleg wrote:[DXLTexPack]
364MB; Contains ReadMe; Optional Texture Replacers Text Document File for Medium Res Terrain
DaggerXL Modding Community Texture Packet

Dungeons
Re-Textures & Discussion
This thread will be covering all that has to do with the following Texture Files in DXLTexPack.
(if it's blank it's unclaimed ;) )

Desert Climate & Misc
-Desert Ruins
[TEXTURE.007] - COMPLETE (wheybags)
[TEXTURE.008] - COMPLETE (wheybags)
-Desert Crypt
[TEXTURE.019] - COMPLETE (PatchyPegleg)
[TEXTURE.020] - COMPLETE (PatchyPegleg)
-Desert Dungeons
[TEXTURE.022] - Work exists but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.023] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.024]
[TEXTURE.025]
-Desert Mines
[TEXTURE.045]
-Desert Natural Caves
[TEXTURE.047]
-Dungeon Entrances
[TEXTURE.056]
-Desert Sewer
[TEXTURE.068]
-Coffins Organ
[TEXTURE.092]
-Torture Stuff
[TEXTURE.093]
-Misc. Textures
[TEXTURE.094]
-Dungeon Exits.
[TEXTURE.095]

Mountain Climate & Misc
-Mountain Ruins
[TEXTURE.107]
[TEXTURE.108]
-Mountain Crypt
[TEXTURE.119] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.120]
-Arches and Doorways
[TEXTURE.121]
-Mountain Dungeons
[TEXTURE.122] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.123]
[TEXTURE.124]
[TEXTURE.125]
-Mountain Marble Floors
[TEXTURE.141] - COMPLETE (PatchyPegleg)
-Mountain Mines
[TEXTURE.145]
-Mountains Natural Caves
[TEXTURE.147] - AlexanderSig has done some work here.
-Mountain Sewers
[TEXTURE.168]

Woodland Climate & Misc
-Woodland Ruins
[TEXTURE.307]
[TEXTURE.308]
-Woodland Crypt
[TEXTURE.319]
[TEXTURE.320]
-Arches and Doorways VI
[TEXTURE.321]
-Woodland Dungeons
[TEXTURE.322] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.323]
[TEXTURE.324]
[TEXTURE.325]
-Dungeon Entrances(ruin)
[TEXTURE.331]
-Woodland Mines
[TEXTURE.345]
-Woodland Natural Caves
[TEXTURE.347]
-Woodland Sewers
[TEXTURE.368]

Swamp Climate
-Swamp Ruins
[TEXTURE.407]
[TEXTURE.408]
-Swamp Crypt
[TEXTURE.419] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.420]
-Swamp Dungeons
[TEXTURE.422]
[TEXTURE.423]
[TEXTURE.424] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.425]
-Swamp Mines
[TEXTURE.445]
-Swamp Natural Caves
[TEXTURE.447]
-Swamp Sewers
[TEXTURE.468]

Updated April 3rd, 2011 - Claims removal, name restored, content update and fixed ReadMe for real. :oops:
Updated November 8th, 2010 - Renamed download "DFTexture" randomly, ReadMe fixed.
Updated October 25th, 2010 - Claims & progress update, DXLTexPack up for Download!
Updated September 26th, 2010 - Progress update.
Updated July 11th, 2010 - Claims & progress update.
Updated July 3rd, 2010 - Claims & progress update.
Updated June 1st, 2010 - Re-formatted layout, new texture files added and progress updated.

As time goes on more Texture Files will be added, as well as progress and claims.
*For instance, none of the main quest related locations have been included in the list yet.*

Anyone can download InterKarma's Daggerfall Explorer/Imaging through the following link http://www.dfworkshop.net/?page_id=100, check out which Texture Files they would like to work on or even just to talk about. Feel free to do as you please. :) Now Daggerfall Imaging 2 is available, be sure to browse around InterKarma's website.

If you are interested in aiding the Texture Project, just PM StoneFrog about a DropBox invite. People that can help you get started includes but is not limited to Lucius & the Site Staff, StoneFrog, myself, Rhymer, Ghost Line, DigitalMonk, and Levethian. Most of these people would be more than willing to help you get started with re-texturing Daggerfall.


PatchyPegleg wrote:I finished my two brick textures I was working on, and besides an unsightly seam that's 'kinda' noticeable I'm very pleased with the final outcome. But I've decided to also run around and take some screen shots of about everything I've been working on so people don't have to read half of the Discussion Thread to find out where I'm at. (A big thanks to DigiMonk & StoneFrog for getting my ears dry, my horns dyed a different color besides green, and for showing me the ropes ;) )

Enjoy :D

TEXTURES
Image
Image
(Yes, these were meant to be very similar, the 2nd one is just a darker variant on a couple bricks)
SCREEN SHOTS
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Lazaroth wrote:Do you want critique?


PatchyPegleg wrote:Sure, have at it. I'm not easily offended.


Lazaroth wrote:Good since I don't intend to offend. :)

In my humble opinion I think 20 looks a tad painty as if some evil lord had gone mad and started painting the bricks with paint. I'm thinking the painting-quest in Oblivion.

Also the rocks looks, although quite similar to the original, a bit painty and has got too much contrast. The space between rocks is too large to IMO.

I hope I didn't offend you now... :) If so, go ahead and complain on my music! ;)


PatchyPegleg wrote:Don't sweat it bro, besides... I loved your interpretation on GSNOW_B. I actually listen to it while I texture from time to time.

It's funny you bring up the bricks far apart through. Because if you look at the texture, the grout is really wide on the very bottom. It was meant to blend seamless with the top as it repeats, but as you can see I made it a little too thick. I guess If I were to crop it a little it would fix that. I'll edit it next time I get a chance to texture.

So do you think that if I turned down the Contrast it would look better?


Lazaroth wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:So do you think that if I turned down the Contrast it would look better?


If you use the old texture as a base I would say no since it looks overworked to begin width. Almost as if too much unsharp mask has been used. My approach would be to find some good stone textures and superimpose over the the old, keeping the form but modifying the size and thereby getting smaller more natural gaps and realistic feeling. Then tweak the color and style to match the original texture. Probably something similar that you did to begin with, but again, it looks overworked with details lacking thereof.

I am more for "realistic" than "paintly" textures, but then again it must fit in the game and a mixture is probably best although I encourage going towards more realistic.


PatchyPegleg wrote:Sorry for delayed reply.

My approach would be to find some good stone textures and superimpose over the the old,


See, this is what I try to avoid, I have done this for very few textures. I find that this isn't so much ability and style with art as it is taking something else and 'making' it work for what you need it for. Even though it usually comes out photo realistic most of the time (which is what I'm guessing is your preference is), it's not personal or very unique. For this texture all I did was upscale the original and pretty much re-work it from scratch, then add one effect. To me, that's already not as natural as I'd like it to be. This was the kind of texture that needed a little love, and that's what I gave to it, and if it looks too painterly, than I guess that's what I'm going to have to settle for. Because this is the best I can do at this point in time.

Regardless, I do thank you for your critique :) It made me realize that maybe all my textures are a too cartoon like, even though Daggerfall is very 'hand drawn' in my opinion, I don't what the remastered version of things to have that same defect. So now while I am trying to redo the textures keeping that same 'hand drawn' feel, I'll keep in mind that we're going for more realistic, as well as more vivid.

And with that, I did remove that wide line you pointed out, and here is the edited bricks.
SCREEN SHOTS
Image
Image


Lazaroth wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:See, this is what I try to avoid, I have done this for very few textures.


I agree that realism isn't what we should strive for, but it's always easier to make something less realistic than more. Also, trying to add details to something unrealistic is in my experience often hard since it tends to come out all blury. My personal opinion is however that textures that are seen a lot should be a bit more realistic than e.g. NPC sprites. The reason for this is because it otherwise may be hard to see what it is I'm looking at. It may be rocks, but I'm not sure since it's so fuzzy and lacking details. It could also make it harder to repeat because of the more diffuse edges.

That being said, the new texture looks better IMO.


Gez wrote:Higher resolution textures have to be somewhat more realistic anyway, or they make the material look like plastic toys. It doesn't mean going all the way to photorealism, but you can't be as cartoony as lowres without exaggerating that cartoony aspect.
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Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:40 am

Page 2

Super Llama wrote:
Lazaroth wrote:I agree that realism isn't what we should strive for,

mah boi, this realism is what all true warriors strive for
sorry, couldn't resist... been watching way too many YTP's :lol:

I agree too though, the "official" texture project should just make the original textures the way 1996's bethsoft would have if they had better technology-- not the way 2010 bethsoft would have. However, I also think that there should be a SEPARATE texture project for high-resolution photorealistic versions of the textures. Personally, I'd have to see them side-by-side to decide which one I'd use. I think a photorealistic HD texture set would be more suited for a Daggerfall where all flats are replaced with high-poly 3D models, but this texture set is better for DaggerXL on its own.


StoneFrog wrote:
Gez wrote:Higher resolution textures have to be somewhat more realistic anyway, or they make the material look like plastic toys. It doesn't mean going all the way to photorealism, but you can't be as cartoony as lowres without exaggerating that cartoony aspect.

Pretty much - this is something that often gets on my nerves when remaking textures. Going from, say, 64x128 to 512x1024 gives me a chance to remake all those cracks and bumps in crisper detail and with smoother transitions, yes. At the same time, the "clean" areas on the low resolution textures now look disturbingly bare. You almost want to grunge them up just to create some visual interest, but that results in a lot of obvious tiling, not to mention lack of faithfulness to the originals.

My things aren't as cartoony as these, since I'm somewhat caving in to that "add some visual noise" urge, but I do agree with Llama in that we should tackle these new textures the way Bethesda would have back in 1996, if they ever got that damned high-resolution version of the game done. :lol:


PatchyPegleg wrote:So let me get this straight,
I think a photorealistic HD texture set would be more suited for a Daggerfall where all flats are replaced with high-poly 3D models, but this texture set is better for DaggerXL on its own.

You're saying that my 1024x512 brick wall, is better suited for keeping the feel of the original Daggerfall? Whilst a photo-realistic brick wall, would be for a heavily modded DaggerXL?
And StoneFrog is agreeing that I should be aiming for keeping the feel of Daggerfall in the textures?
Soooo, do I just keep it up, but try to make them more realistic?

I just want to be sure, that's why I ask. Because if I'm wrong, it would be miles easier to Photoshop rape everything as there is very little skill to it. The marble pillars, that's how I got that done, I just found pictures that worked and made them seamless. Maybe tweaked them a little bit, but there was overall no skill put into them.


Super Llama wrote:I'd say, realistically redo things that look stupid, but make sure when you look at them side by side you can tell that they're supposed to be the exact same thing. For example, with the npc flats, the guard looked stupid with smooth chainmail, and when the artist updated it with a more realistic texture, you could still tell that they were the same object in-game. Basically, a little grunge is good, but don't overdo it. I'd say to add a realistic rock texture overtop of it but set its opacity to very low. That way it won't look like details are missing, but it won't look like a completely different texture.


StoneFrog wrote:Agreed. A faint overlay may not be a bad idea, because as clean and wonderfully high res as your current ones are, they almost look awkward at such a large scale (at least when looking at the texture head-on, ingame it's more natural). I'm finishing up my temple textures, for example, and check out the evolution of the pillars over time:

The left is the current rendition, much cleaner and Daggerfallesque than it was before, on the right. Even though Bethesda had to work with limited dimensions and colors with the original, there certainly was enough room there for them to make them "dirtier" if they wanted to. They clearly opted not to, although whether this was to keep the column distinct at a farther distance or just as a matter of preference is unknown. Still, some faint overlaying is alright in my book.

Image


Lazaroth wrote:
Super Llama wrote:I'd say, realistically redo things that look stupid, but make sure when you look at them side by side you can tell that they're supposed to be the exact same thing. For example, with the npc flats, the guard looked stupid with smooth chainmail, and when the artist updated it with a more realistic texture, you could still tell that they were the same object in-game.


I agree completely, this is IMO the way to go

StoneFrog wrote: They clearly opted not to, although whether this was to keep the column distinct at a farther distance or just as a matter of preference is unknown. Still, some faint overlaying is alright in my book.


I think you also have to consider where it's used ingame, which you seem to have done. The pillar is used in temples and I would say they are clean, in contrast to e.g. dungeon-textures which probably are dirtier.

"I clean the temple sera, mind you keep it that way." (or similar)

What I would want in the future is detail textures. I.e. textures on textures, e.g. adding dirt to a clean pillar. That way you could get more variation of the same texture without that much work.


PatchyPegleg wrote:(NOT ACTUAL SIZES, JUST SHOWING BOTH TEXTURES TO COMPARE THE TWO)
Image
(I was in a rush and somehow cut off a little bit of the right on the top picture when re-sizing for posting purposes :roll: )
Image
I thought that it was a vast improvement over the original in detail and realism, while staying true to the original. I did aim for a detailed clay brick. But I did think if they looked damp or 'oily' if you will, it would add to the "Desert Crypt" look. And as far as the second brick texture that I did goes, the two were so similar that I was about to just use this one for both of them. But I decided to make a barely darker variant instead, not that anyone in game will ever notice that I went out of my way for such a minor detail. So I'm not worried at all if they look too much alike.
___
What I would want in the future is detail textures. I.e. textures on textures

I don't understand how to fix that issue, because I already did that. When I finished the texture, I put an emboss bumpmap on both textures to give them a gritty, darker, and rough look.

I'd say to add a realistic rock texture overtop of it but set its opacity to very low. That way it won't look like details are missing, but it won't look like a completely different texture.

Now that, is a great idea! :) I can do that in future textures. Because there is still an amount of work to be done after you do that, instead of just Photoshop raping it.
I dig it, alright. :)
___
To Lazaroth,
Okay, you meant using multiple layers. I failed to catch on to that :?
___
When I get the time to texture again I'll post something good. But as of late I've been worried about starting my college on time, moving out, and playing Monster Hunter Tri in my free time. Oh, and work... When I have free time from any of these four things I'll be sure to texture periodically, and pump out some new stuff.


Super Llama wrote:I think it turned out pretty well. It could be a LITTLE brighter-- remember, this texture is a dungeon texture, which means it's not under direct light in most situations.


Waxonator wrote:Cut the work out for ya.
Image


Malentor wrote:The hazy, blurred texture in the middle of the bricks somehow disturbs my eyes, as if I was looking at something without being able to focus properly. I don't know if it's just my monitor making it look weird though. :P
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Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:42 am

Page 3

Lazaroth wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:
What I would want in the future is detail textures. I.e. textures on textures

I don't understand how to fix that issue, because I already did that. When I finished the texture, I put an emboss bumpmap on both textures to give them a gritty, darker, and rough look.


Detail textures is an engine feature and not anything you could do atm.. :)

Here you can see it in eDuke32.


jet800 wrote:Malentor, +1.

Texture(last, brighter version) look good but it should have more noise and less blur.


Gez wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:I thought that it was a vast improvement over the original in detail and realism, while staying true to the original.

Though the mortar is a bit thick. Judging from the original picture, it should probably be thinner. Given the blurriness of the source picture, it seems it should be less than one-pixel-equivalent-thick.


PatchyPegleg wrote:Alright, here you go. 020-0&1 brighter plus noise.

Image
Image

Here you can see it in eDuke32.

That thing made the entire pig man look like a pinata made of crumbled paper. :|

EDIT: They still need tweaking actually, I'll get to it after work or whatever.


klasodeth wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:...That thing made the entire pig man look like a pinata made of crumbled paper. :|...

That's because a generic detail texture was used on the entire model. As long as detail textures are paired with surfaces that would benefit from them, the results can look nice. For instance, a detail texture consisting of wood grain can look pretty good on wooden furniture that isn't sufficiently high-res to have fine wood grain as part of the main texture.


jet800 wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:Alright, here you go. 020-0&1 brighter plus noise.

Much better. It would be nice to see some ingame screens with this texture.


PatchyPegleg wrote:
jet800 wrote:
PatchyPegleg wrote:Alright, here you go. 020-0&1 brighter plus noise.

Much better. It would be nice to see some ingame screens with this texture.

Okay, I'm just not gonna tweak them then. Here's a lot of em'. Those nasty floors are my next victims.
SCREEN SHOTS
[you're in a normal situation]
Image
[you are compelled to just look at the wall in all its glory]
Image
[you begin to rub your face on it for a closer look perhaps]
Image
[like a fly you are drawn to the light, only to see the wall in a brighter lighting maybe]
Image
[you look at an inward corner]
Image
[you look at an outward corner]
Image
[satisfied, you run off and find something cool]
===================
I located the darker variant while walking around this corridor, the textures are congruent in structure so this is not only a flaw with the texture layout, but you can also so a gap into the void, which is a model issue. I thought it would be cool to post it so I did. Even though all we can do is talk about it. :roll:
Image


Arctus wrote:I love your textures patchy, your commitment to staying to the original look is just awesome :D


Waxonator wrote:Imagine, with dynamic shadows and bumpmapping.


jet800 wrote:Looks awesome, however top right brick on texture differs much from others. Looks weird when tiled. But anyway it looks awesome.
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Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:43 am

Page 4

PatchyPegleg wrote:HA! Thank you very much you guys. I appreciate it. :)
I tried pretty hard, and I'm not gonna lie without compliment here or there I get bummed.

Looks awesome, however top right brick on texture differs much from others. Looks weird when tiled. But anyway it looks awesome.

Yeah... I was looking at that, I think it's just the drawback of including too much detail. In the original it was brighter there so I tried to make it look like a dried out cray or something that 'pops' out a little bit. But now you see it after every couple bricks. :?
I guess I'll just try to make things less detailed from now on, on top of everything else I gotta try to do...


AlexanderSig wrote:Cool project, just a thought; Maybe you should try to categorize the tilesets using different lines, because if you have like 5 textures for Dungeon tileset 1 and all of those 5 texs are made by different authors they could look inconsistent. Example

Textures 22-25 are all part of "Desert Dungeon A/B/C/NewCs", so just set up the original post like this:

Desert Ruins: (Actually, aren't 007 and 008 the exact same texture?)
[TEXTURE.007] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.008] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.

Desert Crypt:
[TEXTURE.019] - WIP (PatchyPegleg)
[TEXTURE.020] - WIP (PatchyPegleg)

Desert Dungeons:
[TEXTURE.022] - WIP (PatchyPegleg)
[TEXTURE.023] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.024]
[TEXTURE.025]

Desert Mines:
[TEXTURE.045]

Desert Natural Caves:
[TEXTURE.047]

Dungeon Entrances:
[TEXTURE.056]

Desert Sewer:
[TEXTURE.068]

Misc. :
[TEXTURE.092]
[TEXTURE.093]
[TEXTURE.094]
[TEXTURE.095]

Mountain Ruins: (Aren't these also the exact same texture?)
[TEXTURE.107]
[TEXTURE.108]

Mountain Crypt:
[TEXTURE.119] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.120]

Arches and Doorways:
[TEXTURE.121]

Mountain Dungeons:
[TEXTURE.122] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.123] - A small amount of work exists, but this remains unclaimed for anyone.
[TEXTURE.124]
[TEXTURE.125]
(Haven't categorized 144-468)

This might make it easier for users to work on one tileset at a time instead of a single texture which would probably help make the textures more consistent for each tileset. I know you're going to try to keep the style as consistent as you can but since this is a community-based project I think we'd have a better chance of making it more consistent, at least for each dungeon.

Also, didn't someone post some tutorial about making textures on the original Texture project thread, maybe you could add that to the original too :)?


AlexanderSig wrote:Image

Here's my submission for TEXTURE.045 (Desert Mines set), you can decide if you want to use it for your project, I'm not that good at texturing and I won't be offended if you reject this :P


PatchyPegleg wrote:
All this project intends to do is create replacements (usually 4x) the size of every pre-existing texture in the game, which gives just enough working space to remaster them into a more presentable form, whilst retaining an authentic Daggerfall feeling. There are some exceptions, dictated through common sense - for instance, a floor tile should not be larger than a wall texture. Overall, no individual texture should go beyond 1024, nor under 256, in either dimension.

Details and shading will be added, and some degree of artistic license is encouraged (new details and personal touches on the textures), but in the end, these textures aim to be relatively faithful to their 1996 counterparts.

In all aspects of this you have done a wonderful job. I very much invite you to work on dungeon textures in the DaggerXL Texture Project. :)
The point of this project is to make Daggerfall more presentable for the coming of DaggerXL, while still remaining true to its original incarnation. Oh, and for us to have fun while doing it! :)

Artist Guidelines

* Quadruple resolution. Obviously, all the original textures are to be made at this size, at least, on average.
* The floor exception. Most floor textures can be made at 8x resolution (usually giving overall dimensions of 512x512) if the artist wishes, as the player's attention is often diverted to these and the ceilings so the extra quality can't hurt.
* Realistically colored wood. For the umpteenth time, I don't care if the wood in the originals looked like a cross-section of a carrot! I'm attributing it to palette constraints that the original artists had to face, and that we do not. Stop nagging about this (few of you have, this is just in preparation), go for a Gunstock stain or something.
* Avoiding obvious tiling. I won't pester you on this, but one must remember that the texture panels in Daggerfall seldom appear infrequently, and usually will tile >9000 times in a single location. Try to avoid giant cracks shaped like Abraham Lincoln or other distinct markings.
* Have fun! I had to say it to negate the previous points' connotating me as having abnormally strict holdings on the lot of you. :P

Just stick to these basic outlines, Private Messege StoneFrog about a DropBox invite, learn how to use it, and learn how to work on and update the TextureReplacers.txt's. If you need any help at all in the process of this feel free to ask me any questions you need to.

Oh and about re-formatting the Front Page, I'll get to that as soon as I get a chance. Great work! I'm looking forward to making some pretty cool stuff with you. :)

EDIT:
Hey I just wanted to ask why different sides of the wood trimming are different tones/stain colors? Did you notice that? Was it intentional and if so, what were you going for?
And the center of the textures look great by the way, I like the new revised look. :) Much more vivid now, all you probably need to do is increase the Resolution and add some touch ups.
Great Work. ;)


AlexanderSig wrote:Thanks, yep it was intentional to change the wood trimmings to add a little more variation so it looks less tiled :)


PatchyPegleg wrote:I re-formatted the front post closer to what you suggested.

The reason why a lot of the Texture Files are the same thing over & over, with random textures duplicated throughout the files, is because Bethesda was very lazy. The two different Ruin files for each climate were supposed to be a winter/wet set, and then a general set. We can see this take place in many other places across the Texture Files. One texture could also be copied in two other places, mirrored in one, and then desaturated elsewhere, so they wouldn't have to make an individual texture each time.

So keep your eyes open for things like this so that you save yourself a lot of time. ;)


AlexanderSig wrote:Ah I see, but could we perhaps retexture the textures that were meant to be snowy to be actually snowy? I don't really expect a lot of snow in caves though, mostly for the other projects :P

Good job with the front post btw :P


Gez wrote:Maybe not snowy, but hoary, bristling with rime and icicles. The wet marsh one could be glistening from humidity, and have mold grow on wood, and moss on stone.


PatchyPegleg wrote:The reason why they're the same is because Bethesda was lazy. We don't know that if we make variants they will work or even how to work them.

Just to clarify, anything that says 07 or 08 (007;008, 107;108, ect.), is a ruin texture, these are dungeon exteriors. Most of the time just scattered ruins that are outside of the dungeon and affected by the weather of the Illiac Bay.

We can't test it because the current build doesn't change seasons or progress through time (or at least have a way to jump through seasons). We can't test variants, only implement new textures that work.


Tsetra wrote:I feel obligated to post that you guys are doing a fantastic job and I think the idea of preserving the original art style has proven to be the best choice. Not every game needs to have super realistic, bump mapped textures. Combined with the flats and portraits, the almost cartoony/painterly look this is creating is really awesome. Keep up the good work.
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Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:53 am

Page 5

PatchyPegleg wrote:Thank you very much. :D

And with that I think I'm gonna start working on the next texture. ;) Those ugly floors from earlier.


Arctus wrote:What texture are you on these days?


PatchyPegleg wrote:Well Arctus, I had put it off for so long I decided to start as soon as I read your post.

Like I said earlier I'm working on the floors in that same hallway.
TEXTURES
Image
Image
I still got to lighten them, make them seamless, ect. So this texture is definitely a WIP, if you wanna leave some critique now is the perfect time. ;)
SCREEN SHOTS
Image
Could definitely go for some brightening.
Image
Image


Arctus wrote:I feel like the checkered color look may look odd when it's tiled a whole bunch. But that may be just because I'm not used to it.


Waxonator wrote:Why would a dark musky dungeon have checkered floors?


StoneFrog wrote:Some very minor shade variance would be alright, but I have to agree that you should tone down the checkered effect a bit for the time being.


PatchyPegleg wrote:
Arctus wrote:But that may be just because I'm not used to it.

StoneFrog wrote:tone down the checkered effect a bit

Easily done, the texture can be desaturated, making it look more like stone and getting rid of any seams plus the checkered look. I'll post an update here soon.
Waxonator wrote:Why would a dark musky dungeon have checkered floors?

For the same reason it would have three story marble pillars, a throne with a switch that raises it up two or three meters, a pile of treasure hidden behind a bookcase you can look over, and why not one dungeon is empty or populated by refugees or something more civilized than monsters and demons.

:idea: Just cause :idea:

The Bethesda way ;)


PatchyPegleg wrote:So it didn't come out as well as I had hoped, the checkered effect is still there somewhat. But it does look better, so here's a comparison.

TEXTURES
new
Image
old
Image

And here's something to see what it looks like in-game, let me know what you think. :)

SCREEN SHOTS
Image
Image
Image


luciusDXL wrote:Can you post a comparison shot between the new textures and the original (un-modded) textures in game? Thanks. :)


jet800 wrote:
luciusDXL wrote:Can you post a comparison shot between the new textures and the original (un-modded) textures in game? Thanks. :)

That's exactly that i wanted to ask for.
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Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:54 am

Page 6

PatchyPegleg wrote:Before
Image
After
Image
_
Before
Image
After
Image
_
Before
Image
After
Image
_
Before
Image
After
Image

EDIT: I'm looking at it again, and I wanna turn the contrast down on the rocky wall, and I also wanna darken the new brick wall close to what it was before, it's too bright now. My wife is waiting on me right now so I'll post an update later tonight. I hope you enjoy the textures anyways.


Arctus wrote:I was about to say that your new rock wall seems too bright, but then I read the bottom sentence :D But it also seems that some of the floor textures aren't dark enough either, at least in the grout.


Super Llama wrote:imo the ceiling is WAY too dark, but other than that they look great :)


PatchyPegleg wrote:
Arctus wrote:I was about to say that your new rock wall seems too bright, but then I read the bottom sentence :D But it also seems that some of the floor textures aren't dark enough either, at least in the grout.

Umm, the floors that you are referring to are from Texture File 019, I've already gone back and re-done all of these earlier this year. But I was planning on re-doing all of 019 again (3rd time doing it :? ) once Privateer's Hold is finished. So remember that grout comment, because I will be doing that texture again in hi-def. ;)
Super Llama wrote:imo the ceiling is WAY too dark, but other than that they look great :)

Llama you might have seen that part of the texture project discussion way back when. I was having a difficult time with it, and well, DigiMonk, StoneFrog, and myself all push more towards artistic liberty on that one. Even then it went under a lot of editing, but like I said to Arctus, I will being re-doing 019 again.... :(
But I can't imagine me changing it too drastically, I like it, when I revise it I will probably just improve the quality, wooden beams (colors too), and the resolution too. I guess it could stand to be lightened up a little though. Just remind me when the time comes around and I'll work with you to make it resemble the original more. :)


PatchyPegleg wrote:SCREEN SHOTS
Before
Image
After
Image
_
Before
Image
After
Image
_
Before
Image
After
Image

EDIT: To explain myself on the rocky wall, it's so 'faded' looking because I focused mainly on getting the rocks the same colors as the original. The grout is the only difference, and I didn't want to continue the whole "black nothingness for grout" so, yup. I really hate this texture with everything I got, it took me two days just to get it like this. I don't know why but this texture has been nothing but a pain to me ever since I first started working on it way back whenever.

And now that a couple textures have been tweaked & added I'm going to update the DropBox and keep pushing forward.


PatchyPegleg wrote:I still hate the rock wall, dammit. That really pisses me off. I've been trying to ignore this, but I've been playing Daggerfall a lot lately, and that texture is in nearly every dungeon I go into. I can't leave it that way. So I'm probably just gonna re-do, what is it 019? Yeah, so I'm gonna re-do that file... Instead of doing new things. I've gotta quality control my own work. I even notice things with my newest ones I don't like, soooooo I don't know what the hell I'm gonna do.

All my work should be in this thread, so, start nit picking at my work and I'll get to it eventually. Thanks in advance.


AlexanderSig wrote:I like it, but you could try making it a bit dirtier and darker :)


Tsetra wrote:You may have to do some artistic licensing to get it to look just right. I think the problem may be associated with the fact that the stones contrast so much with each other, having the bluish ones right next to bright brown ones. Trying to solve this by tweaking the brightness makes it look really washed out and in my opinion worse than the original. Maybe tone down the saturation of one or both of the rock colors or change the hues just slightly? The grout is also rather thick. You might experiment with making it smaller and less noticeable in the first place if it's causing issues.

I think these things can be applied with the outcome still resembling the original art.


jman0war wrote:I second what Tsetra suggested.
Also, there's something that strikes me a tiny odd about the scaling of the 2 textures on the Column in the big room with staircase.

The white marble is fine, but the rose coloured marble at the base of the Column, i think it should be scaled up a bit?
They just clash a little too much.
In fact looking at the screenshot of the "before" picture, they appear to use the same texture only the rose coloured one has had it's hue/saturation adjusted.


Bythemark wrote:Hey guys. I think Stonefrog has to approve me before I can actually work (I'm not entirely sure what's going on--I've been on and off looking here) but assuming I can do it, I'd like to claim 0.68. Here are some of my first tries.

Image Image

Image Image

Image Image
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Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:57 am

Page 7

Waxonator wrote:There should be an alternate texture pack for those who want more realistic textures.


Greendogo wrote:
Waxonator wrote:There should be an alternate texture pack for those who want more realistic textures.

Agreed


Gez wrote:
Bythemark wrote:Hey guys. I think Stonefrog has to approve me before I can actually work (I'm not entirely sure what's going on--I've been on and off looking here) but assuming I can do it, I'd like to claim 0.68. Here are some of my first tries.

Image Image

Image Image

Image Image


To be honest, I don't really like them. :| Whatever filter you use look like JPG artifacts.


Wait, those are actual JPGs. Please use PNGs instead so that the image isn't damaged by compression.


Bythemark wrote:I should know better :P I do everything else in PNG.

Alright, so I looked at my other ones, and decided I only liked the vegetation and some other bits of the first, Smudge-sharpen got some texture, but you're right, it's not great, even if I had put it in PNG. So this time I used sharpen less, fixed the bricks with a smaller brush, and used some dodging and burning for detail. Is this a step in the right direction? I think it looks nicer, but I'm really a noob at retexturing.

Image Image


AlexanderSig wrote:
Bythemark wrote:Image


Looks good :)


Bythemark wrote:Thanks :)

Edit: hmm. Some of these are tough. This one took me a while. Any thoughts? Besides the major fail with tiling I made? If the quality of these is good enough, I'll go back and make these tile right.

Image Image


StoneFrog wrote:Sorry for the late reply, Bythemark. Anyway, there are very few qualifications for joining the project. Just by figuring out how to view and extract the Daggerfall textures yourself, you're already pretty much enlightened. I'll be honest with you - I cna't really tell what's going on with your textures. Maybe it's just artifacting from the JPEG file format, but it makes it hard to tell what's been "improved" and what hasn't. I'm going to use your orange sewer walls as an example.

The quality seems to be pretty variable - for instance, I really love what you've done with the grime and moss in the cracks. There's some very nice contours and shadowing that was never there before. Nice work! I myself can't really do flora nor any organic forms, period. :P

However, much of the actual bricks appear to have just been mercilessly blurred - I can tell because of the faint, bloom-like "glow" where the colors are different. These miscolored spots are obviously the individual pixels from the original. If you want to keep using this method, I would suggest you try to smear out the edges a bit more so that they blend realistically. You have some nice elevated bumps in some places, especially around the edges - very similar to the walls Patchy's made, and I'd say they're a welcome increase in detail. At the same time, many sections of the bricks just appear to have a nondescript texture overlaid onto them - in particular, the largest "complete" brick in the second orange texture.

I'm not sure if the spacing and grout between the stones should be so dramatic, either - it's pretty much complete darkness, which, in combination with the slight "bevel" you've given to the edges, implies the stones to be fairly big and chunky. I'd suggest toning down the shadows around the cracks to compensate. Aside from all these nitpicks, I don't have anything against the textures, nor anybody's. I think that right now our goal is basically to get everything redone, and later on, should the original artist ever desire to start some of their textures from scratch again, that's perfectly fine.

All I can suggest to you at this point is to keep at it, and try to make the entire texture look fairly detailed as opposed to some areas looking "splotchy" and others less so. PM me with your email address, and I'll invite you to the Dropbox as soon as I can. :)

Waxonator wrote:There should be an alternate texture pack for those who want more realistic textures.

Perhaps, although I think I'll never actually attempt this. Daggerfall's original textures are so small and ambiguous in their design that I couldn't imagine a totally photorealistic recreation. There just isn't enough information to work with before you start getting silly with the details. For the record, the texture sin this project aren't meant to be "cartoony". Painterly, perhaps, but I'd never call them "cartoony" in the World of Warcraft sense. We're basically avoiding excessive detail overlays and grunge, that's it.


Tsetra wrote:I think the Aleph One retextures done for the Marathon series are the perfect example and worth a play if only to see how good this will look when it's finished. Everything is true to the original but done with, as you say, a painterly style. Sprites are left alone but they were already higher resolution than the sprites from other games of that era and it looks very nice. Playing that game with such a consistent style, I felt no need for "realistic" textures. Consistency is where it's at, and right now the DXL Texture Project has that in spades.

Most likely a realistic texture pack will form in the future when DXL is playable and receives lots of attention.

Sorry for steering off topic, but at the very least look up some screenshots or videos of Marathon 2 ran through Aleph One with the textures and you'll see what I mean by this.


Bythemark wrote:Thanks stone. I don't mind a delay if I get a response like that :D I don't mind posting this one--this is almost becoming something just to see how much an inbox can fill up:
oculus.inferni@yahoo.com. If you need a gmail for whatever reason, I'll pm you that.

Thanks for the ideas on the bricks. You're totally right on the spacing--DF feels cramped, and big spaces in the bricks will feel more open, however creepy they are. I'll use a smaller brush when recreating them, and I'll experiment with hard and soft brushes. I've completely given up on the first three, and I'm going to redo them. The brick edges I'm still working out. I have achieved partial nice-looking edges, but only with the oversharpened crap (I'm ashamed to say jpeg only did part of that) on my second orange one, so I'll attempt at getting it with a brush.

Thanks for the comment on the vegetation :). It's a smudge-sharpen, but you must use an oil-painting smudge, like this:

Image
(I'm no good at sigs, I've made a coupla good ones in all of my work :P)

Fortunately, the sharpening effect is noticeable as low as 20-45 sharpening rate, so it doesn't destroy the rest of the image. I'll try and find out how to do the bricks.

Also, I'm really into procedural stuff, so I'm going to try and vectorize some of the simpler textures in inkscape (color works with channels to an extent, and we can recolor easily enough anyway). I'll post liquid rescale results too just for fun, and maaaayybee we can find some use for the interesting but largely skewed results it gets.

Edit: This still needs a bit of work, maybe, but the style is a bit different. I went for a more handcrafted and realistic look, with the more packed-in and harder edges as suggested. I'll redo the first three in this style, my previous two will get a "pass" until I get more work done, but I think this style would look best in-game.

Image Image

Edit2: :cry:
I've been doin' it wrong. This is my first actually tile-able image. I'll go back and do the other three, it doesn't take much time. *sigh*

Image Image

edit3:
Redid no.1, working on fixing tiling, and doing 2, 3, 4, and 8.


rizla12 wrote:Just had to say those last two look great and I would gladly play daggerfall with that kind of smudgy paint look. However, it would be interesting to see some screens of them ingame, it might look a bit too smudgy. But maybe with bumpmaps (or if it was normal maps dxl uses) it might be a good blend with the bumpy and smudgy.
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Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:00 am

Page 8

Bythemark wrote:
rizla12 wrote:Just had to say those last two look great and I would gladly play daggerfall with that kind of smudgy paint look. However, it would be interesting to see some screens of them ingame, it might look a bit too smudgy. But maybe with bumpmaps (or if it was normal maps dxl uses) it might be a good blend with the bumpy and smudgy.

Thanks :). I'll post screens in game when the whole pack is done.

update: 0.68 is 50% complete and tileable.


Arctus wrote:Texture work has suddenly gone quiet!


Bythemark wrote:I'm still working a little, just not posting all of it. Most of our texture makers have disappeared, though. Anyone else think we should do a recruitment drive? I might be able to get a few talented people to help.


I think mine may have to tile with each other, but I'm going to check that before I really do it. If only "Make Seamless" in GIMP didn't suck. Plug-in search time.


PatchyPegleg wrote:Well I've been working long hours lately and have no free time anymore. :(

My apologies for not reviewing and managing the thread better.

Bythemark, you are not going to be able to post screenies until we have full dungeon support. I haven't seen any Desert Sewer textures in Privateer's Hold. Don't worry, the wait shouldn't be too long. ;)

Nice Job by the way. I would suggest re-doing your work over and over until you fully discover your style and are happy with it. I've only been texturing for 6 months so I know how it is. Just always try your best and you'll do fine around here.


StoneFrog wrote:No regrets. My summer vacation has been going on for an entire week now and I've accomplished absolutely nothing, even though I wanted to get one set per week finished. I did some preliminary work on the mountain taverns however, and I think I'd like to finish all of those buildings before the end of August. Work at your own pace, Patchy - I mean, Lucius is. :lol:


Bythemark wrote:But couldn't we just replace Privateer's Hold's textures with whatever we wanted?

Update: 0.68 is done, except...3-0. I can't do wood. At all. I'm going to have a serious go at it later, but it's like 94 degrees inside and out so I can only do menial tasks like making them tile right.
Album:
http://img171.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=35575957.png


wheybags wrote:thumbnailthumbnail

Was bored, decided to try my hand. Massively shit, Y/N?
EDIT: This is not a submission, it's just for practice.
EDIT EDIT: How do I get textures ingame?


Bythemark wrote:http://daggerxl.50.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=91
^lucius's how-to

They're not bad. Like my first, it's a bit cartoony. Try bump maps and grunge brush burning to get a worn, atmospheric feel on them. Also watch the spaces, when tiled some of them look very circle brushy.


VinWij wrote:Yo wheybags, that wall looks great. It's perhaps a bit too clean, but the stones look very good. Good job!


wheybags wrote:
VinWij wrote:Yo wheybags, that wall looks great. It's perhaps a bit too clean, but the stones look very good. Good job!


Thanks.

Bythemark wrote:http://daggerxl.50.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=91
^lucius's how-to

They're not bad. Like my first, it's a bit cartoony. Try bump maps and grunge brush burning to get a worn, atmospheric feel on them. Also watch the spaces, when tiled some of them look very circle brushy.


Thanks again, but, uh, what's a grunge brush? Also, aren't bump maps applied in-engine?

EDIT:
thumbnail
Made it a bit dirtier with an overlay blend, but I'm not quite happy with the white-ish brick in the top right corner.
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Re: The DaggerXL Texture Project (Dungeons)

Postby Greendogo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:04 am

Page 9

Bythemark wrote:Like this:
http://xaliasx.deviantart.com/art/abstr ... 2-17185610
There are a lot of packs, but this just popped up in google.

Bump maps are applied in-engine, but it's best to get a realistic look first anyway imo.


wheybags wrote:thumbnail
Working on another one, it's still WIP. And if it's cool, I'll claim texture 007.


Bythemark wrote:A bit blurry. They look good, but tiling is a little messy. I'd put them in my DF though. 8-) Also, 007 and 008 are the same thing, so you get double the credit for normal work.

edit: Claiming 0.24. Also placing a hit on 3-0 for 0.68 for people who like wood.

Also 368 *could* be done with mostly recolors of 068, but I'll completely redo most anyway, so unless anyone wants that I'll claim it after 024 is done. You has a window now...

Also: if the stocks don't tile, should I bother forcing them to?


klasodeth wrote:
Bythemark wrote:Also: if the stocks don't tile, should I bother forcing them to?

I'd say this depends on how the textures are used in the game. If a stock texture wasn't designed to tile--but was used in a situation where it does, an effort should be made to have it tile gracefully. But if a texture doesn't actually tile in-game, or if attempting to make a texture tile gracefully requires excessive modifications, then it can probably be ignored.


Bythemark wrote:
klasodeth wrote:
Bythemark wrote:Also: if the stocks don't tile, should I bother forcing them to?

I'd say this depends on how the textures are used in the game. If a stock texture wasn't designed to tile--but was used in a situation where it does, an effort should be made to have it tile gracefully. But if a texture doesn't actually tile in-game, or if attempting to make a texture tile gracefully requires excessive modifications, then it can probably be ignored.


Alright. The bricks don't even match up, but I believe it is tiled. I'll do what I can, I guess.


klasodeth wrote:It looks like the easiest way to fix the problem with the cut-off bricks is to squash the texture vertically just enough to get you a few extra pixel rows of room to rebuild the bricks that are cut off. I'm not sure what that triangular blob is supposed to represent (a hole patched with mud?), but the extra room should allow for something to be done to the top so that it doesn't look like it's cut off. Are there any other textures that this one need to merge with at the edges, or is it a truly stand-alone texture?


VinWij wrote:Hmm, wheybags, the quality between your previous wall and this one is rather large. I loved the first, but this one looks heavily WIP. It need some work. It's really flat, whereas the other wall really had a feel of depth.


Super Llama wrote:
VinWij wrote:Hmm, wheybags, the quality between your previous wall and this one is rather large. I loved the first, but this one looks heavily WIP. It need some work. It's really flat, whereas the other wall really had a feel of depth.

agreed


wheybags wrote:This one had waaay more bricks, and was far more regular, so I tried to cut corners to speed up the process.


Bythemark wrote:That doesn't really work. At least run a bump map or two on it and burn some grunge on it (it doesn't necessarily make it look dirty). It looks better at higher res, yes, but it's still extremely blurry.

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